Jennifer Lynn Barnes ([info]jenlyn_b) wrote,
@ 2009-06-20 22:23:00
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Tropes
I just wrote a really long blog entry and then deleted, because it didn't feel like enough of a conversation. And I'm kind of in the mood for a conversation, so I thought I'd throw out a question that I was talking about with one of my writer friends the other day. The question centers on tropes (as in common themes/plotlines used in movies and books). I know I've mentioned before that I love this site, which catalogues TV tropes, and I'd love to see a similar one for YA books or romance novels (anyone need a summer project?), but I thought I'd throw out the following questions for the blog:

1. What is/are your favorite trope(s)?

2. What is/are your least favorite trope(s)?

Examples of my favorite tropes: slightly crazy, waiflike characters who are more than people give them credit for being (a la River in Firefly or Luna in Harry Potter), stories which contain characters who have an older brother or sister as their legal guardian (ie Lock and Key by Sarah Dessen, The Outsiders by S.E. Hinton, The Last Silk Dress by Ann Rinaldi), and characters who are drawn to each other romantically based on some bone-deep similarity (drawing a blank at the moment, but I'm sure I'll think of an example shortly).

Some of my least favorite tropes (though I can still give you at least one example each of books that do it well): the best friend character who seems to have a vested interest in the main character losing their virginity; stories which revolve around an overachieving female learning to loosen up; the surprise werewolf (in which a male character in a known supernatural world, who acts very wolflike and disappears on the full moon, is revealed at the very end of the book to be a werewolf).

So what are your favorite and least favorite tropes? Any takers?

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[info]swan_tower
2009-06-21 03:19 am UTC (link)
Favorites: siblings or sibling-type-peoples, teams of younger people getting to apply their training to the real world, older generations who knew each other way back when, characters with hidden layers (either dark or light), and most especially people who hate each other having to suck it up and work together anyway.

Least favorite: Big Misunderstandings (that would be cleared up with five minutes of conversation), characters put into stories for the express purpose of dying and thereby causing angst, people who are part of fringe society and therefore inherently much cooler and more magical than the mainstream folks around them, people letting their hormones drown out their basic common sense.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 05:40 am UTC (link)
I love siblings and sibling-types, too. A large percentage of my all-time favorite characters are siblings. :)

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These are a few of my favorite things . . .
[info]kellyrfineman
2009-06-21 04:00 am UTC (link)
I dig orphans. Also, ghosts. Also, adventure; especially if disguise of some sort is involved, including but not limited to cross-dressing (usually girl in drag as boy, but I'm flexible on this point) and costuming. Also, magic; especially witchcraft/spell-related magic, but again, I'm flexible when it comes to magic and magical powers (which are just like superpowers, come to think of it, so we can add that to the list as well - only I prefer magical powers to superpowers, because I am odd). Also, references to books and reading and what makes for good stories (as it turns out); I've spotted that as things I adore about Pratchett and Gaiman and even Tolkien and more.

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Re: These are a few of my favorite things . . .
[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 05:41 am UTC (link)
I'm a sucker for the "girl dressed as boy" trope, and also references to books and reading.

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[info]jliann
2009-06-21 04:28 am UTC (link)
I love characters that have seemingly contradictory/unexpected traits. Like, for example, a rowdy high school bully who is a gardening geek at heart. Or a painfully shy wallflower who is a fourth-level karate blackbelt.

My least favourite tropes are where the heroine is a social outcast trying to work her way into the cool clique. Or where the protagonist's main rival is a super rich snob. I mean, there are ways to make an interesting antagonist without making him/her a spoiled rich kid.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 05:43 am UTC (link)
I almost listed the heroine trying to work her way into the cool clique as one of my least favorite tropes. Like my other unfavored ones, I think it CAN be done well enough to win me over, but any book with that premise is at a huge disadvantage with me to start with.

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[info]cloudshaper2k
2009-06-21 04:43 am UTC (link)
Favorites: Functional families - nuclear or otherwise, braving long odds to reach goals - they don't have to save the world just face overwhelming opposition, alien invasions . . . just could we LOSE once in a while and then have to build a rebellion from the ground up to reclaim our world?

Least Favorite: Vampires as irresistible hotties who ultimately seduce the MC into becoming one of them, magic being what makes the female lead special (kinda starting to wonder where the heroines are in YA who DON'T have magic powers). Note: It's not that I don't have a few of these I like - Angel, and certain sisters whose names start with "L" come to mind. It's just these are getting overdone. (I've been burned out on vampires since 1995 and seeing three entire sections of my local Border's YA department displaying nothing but Twilight hasn't helped.)

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 05:47 am UTC (link)
Ooohhhhh, I really like the family-banding-together-to-reach-goals trope, with "family" defined really broadly. I like a sense of family in books, but for me, it doesn't have to be the character's blood-relations, so much as the people they really see as family. I'm equally a sucker for both the "make and define your own family" family and the "we're actually related" one, so long as the feel is there.

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[info]serafina_zane
2009-06-21 06:00 am UTC (link)
...I just decided to check my flist before going to sleep, after spending a good...oh man, four hours on TV Tropes.
In a related note, my brain is too fried to think of favorite or least favorite tropes. But I laughed when I saw this post.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 11:46 pm UTC (link)
We are clearly the same person.

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(Anonymous)
2009-06-21 07:27 am UTC (link)
Least favorite: love triangles. Occasionally done well, but usually it just reduces the heroine's choices/actions to going back and forth with angst between two boys, as if that's her sole purpose anymore. Usually crops up in later books in series, to drag things out. Also, I'm kind of sick of the 'over-looked but perfect for her nice-guy best friend' who she eventually realises is her true love.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 11:49 pm UTC (link)
I appreciate love triangles when they're a sub-plot or when they fall naturally out of the world of the book, but usually not as much when the major conflict of the book relies upon a love triangle. My FAVORITE love triangles, though, tend to be those in which one member is absent. Like in Buffy, when Buffy and Spike start developing a relationship, there's still an implied love triangle, because Angel was Buffy's first love and there's always been a sense of competition between Angel and Spike. Or on the show Everwood, during season 1, when they twisted the typical love triangle (popular boy dating popular girl who develops a connection with loner boy who is in love with her) by placing one of the three key players (the popular boy) in a coma at the start of the series.

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[info]idiot_mob
2009-06-21 11:35 am UTC (link)
Least favourite: 1. A main character who is also a writer. Especially when they are writing something and it turns out to be this amazing story all about ... exactly what we just watched/read. Imagination people! 2. Best friend of the main character being quirky, confident and slutty while the main character is shy and perfoect, think every single romantic comedy ever.

Favourites: 1. An evil character (who is ACTUALLY evil and unlikable) who is slowly changed/revealed to be good (Swearengen from Deadwood, Logan from Veronica Mars) and on the flipside of that, a likable character who turns out to be evil (Beaver/Cassidy Veronica Mars) 2. Awesome and hilarious villains (Spike, the Mayor) 3. Slightly crazy, waiflike characters who ... oh hang on, that's been said. I'd add Dru as well.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 11:51 pm UTC (link)
Logan from VERONICA MARS is one of my all-time favorite characters. I also appreciate a humorous villain. Sounds like we have pretty similar tastes (though I'm neutral to the writer-character in general).

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-21 02:49 pm UTC (link)
You should totally cross post this on FFF -- am I imagining that you're a member or is that real?

I love the horrible person who turns out to be necessary to the main character's survival. I love brothers. I love the anti-hero, who is forced to be good.

Least favorite: the self-deprecating girl who learns to love herself.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 11:52 pm UTC (link)
Cross-posted (with a few modifications).

And yes!!! to brothers, which leads me to two questions: 1. Do you watch Supernatural? and 2. Have you read The Demon's Lexicon? Completely different from each other, but there is brother gloriousness in each.

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-22 12:21 am UTC (link)
I have only lusted after TDL -- I was in Savannah when I saw it last and trying to avoid checking luggage on the way back. And I haven't seen Supernatural because I've been too busy watching Burn Notice back to back on DVD.

I realize that Burn Notice has neither brothers nor horrible people necessary to the main character's survival. But the MC is sort of an anti-hero. Kind of. Not really. Okay, but he's bad-ass.

I realized too that I'm a sucker for Good People Who Are Being Forced to Do Bad Things Against Their Will. Is that a trope? I would totally OWN that trope, if it is.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-22 01:26 am UTC (link)
GPWABFTDBTATW is totally a trope! And Lament was one of the first things that popped into my head when you mentioned it. :)

Re: TDL- you must read it! It's AMAZING. Great world, great characters, incredible narration... just fab. And, oh! The brotherlyness of it! And Supernatural, especially starting in season 2, is perhaps the best brother-centric TV show OF ALL TIME.

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-22 01:43 am UTC (link)
I am so in love with Sarah's blog that I can't wait to read TDL.

And okay, OKAY, I'm adding Supernatural to my Netflix RIGHT NOW. (I am terrible at watching shows on TV -- I don't have to tell you how scheduled shows and author deadlines don't really play well).

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-22 01:45 am UTC (link)
Season 1 of Supernatural has shining moments and quippy dialogue, but IMO, it doesn't get REALLY awesome until season 2. I totally think you'll love it. And now I feel like I've done my good deed for the day.

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-22 01:46 am UTC (link)
LOL. I will totally blame/ credit you with my feelings for it.

Also, speaking of boys-who-are-forced-to-lose-their-humanity tropes, did I ask you if you wanted a SHIVER ARC? I can't remember, because my brain is addled. If you do, I can make that happen. If i already asked you and you already replied, ignore me, I'm having a senior moment.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-22 02:06 am UTC (link)
You have not asked me before, but due to my own sneaky BEA ways, I managed to obtain a copy on my own and have just been waiting until I finished Raised By Wolves revisions to dig in.

But if you happen to have any extra Ballad ARCs lying around, let me know! :)

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-22 02:09 am UTC (link)
LOL. That is the 36,000 dollar question. Or was it 38,000? I have been revising too long to remember pithy quotes. I'll ping my publicist and let ya know.

And don't think I didn't notice you had werenovels appearing. I'm excited to read it!

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[info]anachred
2009-06-22 02:06 am UTC (link)
I am so glad I'm not the only one crushing on that blog.

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-22 02:10 am UTC (link)
Oh, I can't be alone in my love. She is too, too funny.

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[info]lit_mischief
2009-06-22 12:34 pm UTC (link)
Oh, Maggie - Burn Notice does too have brothers! Michael's brother, along with Michael's mom, has been a factor in some of my favorite plots in that show.

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[info]m_stiefvater
2009-06-22 02:33 pm UTC (link)
Ohhh, I love Michael's Mom. His brother is fine, but I prefer the Michael-Sam relationship hugely.

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[info]chicklitteens
2009-06-21 04:02 pm UTC (link)
Favorites: Siblings that are total opposites, seeminlgy perfect girl who has to learn to let go (Macy from The Truth About Forever), the medling main character that always seems to find trouble (Jas from Bad Kitty and Kitty Kitty), quirky or geeky main characters (Gigi from The Specialists).

Least Favorites: Friends obsessed with their friend losing their virginity ( Frankie in Twenty Boy Summer), the girl who ditches her friends for her boyfriend, horror movie syndrome in which characters make obviously stupid choices repeatedly and you spend the entire book going "No, don't do that!" (Gemma in The Sweet Far Thing).

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 11:53 pm UTC (link)
Even though I generally dislike the "friends obsessed with friends losing their virginity" trope (in a HUGE way), I thought Twenty Boy Summer actually had an interesting twist on it. Most books with that trope seem to take it for granted that OF COURSE friends want friends to lose their virginity, but I thought the twists and turns of TBS made it a part of Frankie's character.

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[info]freneticreader.blogspot.com
2009-06-21 07:35 pm UTC (link)
Least favorites:

--The boy best friend who is in love with the girl MC. Bonus points if the girl has no idea until the middle/end. Double bonus points if the girl dates a jerk before realizing the best friend likes her and she likes him back.

--MCs who, like, idolize their best friends. "My best friend is so gorgeous and wonderful and I am a total troll in comparison."

--MCs who have one best friend, or hardly any friends.

--Trios of mean girls.

--Vampires. Just them in general. xD

I don't really have any favorites. xD

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-21 11:56 pm UTC (link)
I like the "person falling for their best friend" trope, but not if it is preceded by the "girl dating a jerk she's not really into" or "girl pining away for boy she thinks is her true love" one. Basically, I like it when someone falls for their best friend if the plot of the book is not related to the girl's love life per se, but am not as fond of it when it is.

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drive-by comment
[info]soniag
2009-06-22 12:02 am UTC (link)
I saw this post on FFF and thought "OH!" 'cause on Friday I posted something similar but less cerebral-sounding -- my Bullet-proof Kinks.

I hadn't really considered which ones I DON'T like. You'd think a bunch of them would instantly come to mind, but I'm drawing a blank.

Now I will check that website.

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Re: drive-by comment
[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-22 01:29 am UTC (link)
Thanks for pointing me to your blog! I loved your entry. And fair warning on the website- it's the BIGGEST TIME SUCK EVER. But also awesome.

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[info]jessica_shea
2009-06-22 02:16 am UTC (link)
This is a great question! Some of my favorites: artsy boys, vulnerable-at-heart bad boys (see: Chuck Bass, Tim Riggins), boarding schools, girls who save themselves, feeling stultified in a small/conservative town or family.

The big one that turns me off: girls who don't realize that their boyfriend is a werewolf/vampire/supernatural creature until waaaay after the reader's figured it out. I end up wishing they would get bitten/eaten/dead just for being so clueless!

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-22 02:37 pm UTC (link)
I love vulnerable-at-heart bad boys when their vulnerability and badness fit together in some way- but I'm not so into the trope that any badness combined with any vulnerability does it for me. In contrast, however, I have a weak spot for cute little kids in things like romance novels, so a bad boy who has a sweet relationship with a little kid TOTALLY does me in, even if it's not done completely well.

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[info]gryfndor_godess
2009-06-22 09:04 pm UTC (link)
I love this topic!

Favorites: Thanks to Tamora Pierce and reading Alanna when I was eight, I LOVE female-pretending-to-be-a-guy-with-a-hilarious-reveal-at-the-end plots (although I have seen it done badly as well).

Least Favorites: I hate how in most fantasy novels (or non-fantasy), teenagers' parents can't be trusted to know whatever magical/supernatural secret is driving the plot. I know that parental negligence is often necessary for the plot to work, but it drives me nuts when MCs automatically assume that their parents won't believe anything fantastical they tell them.

-Forced love triangles. Why create a story with the sole purpose of breaking one of your protagonist's hearts? I just don't think that's very nice.

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[info]jenlyn_b
2009-06-23 12:43 am UTC (link)
I love this topic so much that I'm pretty sure I blog about it at least once a year. But every year, I have new favorite tropes to add!

And I'm right there with you on the Alanna trope- which is funny, because in general, I dislike the "someone has a secret that none of their friends know and you spend the whole book or series wondering how things will go out when the secret comes out" trope- like when someone lies about something really early on in a book, and you know it's going to come back and bite them, or some such thing. But for some reason, when the secret is "girl masquerading as boy," my preference suddenly flips and I like it a lot.

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